{
  "attachments": [],
  "comments_archived": true,
  "date": "2003-07-30T14:58:52.000Z",
  "layout": "post",
  "title": "Videos on tape (Travan, not VHS)",
  "wordpress_id": 454,
  "wordpress_slug": "video-on-tape",
  "wordpress_url": "http://www.decafbad.com/blog/?p=454",
  "year": "2003",
  "month": "07",
  "day": "30",
  "isDir": false,
  "slug": "video-on-tape",
  "type": "entry",
  "postName": "2003-07-30-video-on-tape",
  "html": "<p>Oh and while I'm writing about watching video files on my TV, I've\nbeen thinking of getting myself a tape drive.  Sure, I'll use it to\nactually, finally, back up all the important things I have littered\naround my handful of machines.  Having established a backup routine\nat work, I've gotten to thinking.</p>\n<p>How bad an idea would it be to use a tape drive to store TV shows?\nI've been capturing them with the VCD format, which gives me around\n600MB per hour of show.  This fills up my drive pretty quickly,\nobviously.  I know I really should take sometime to revisit things and\ntry another video codec, since originally I used VCD because I burned\neverything to CD for my DVD player, but now I'm streaming files to my\nPowerbook over the network which gives me a lot more flexibility in\nrecording options.</p>\n<p>However, not burning to CD leaves me with a hard drive full of video\nthat I'm hesitant to delete yet have no good reason to need laying around on a\nhigh speed hard drive.  But, burning all that to a spindle-worth\nof blank CDs without a Lego Mindstorms based CD-changer robot leaves\nme shuddering.  I recall reading about <a href=\"http://www.djzone.net/pg/0101/tf01001.shtml\" target=\"_top\">a DJ-bot</a>\nthat did this for playing music, and I notice <a href=\"http://ask.slashdot.org/articles/03/07/22/122253.shtml?tid=137&amp;tid=198\" target=\"_top\">via Slashdot</a> that someone with a\ndecent woodshop <a href=\"http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/changer.html\" target=\"_top\">has provided plans</a>\nfor such a beast for a CD writer.  But I can't afford the Legos at\nthe present moment, and I'll only end up hurting myself working with\npower tools.</p>\n<p>Then, I remember that high capacity tapes make backing up lots of data\neasy at work.  I know that the tape trade off is capacity and price\nfor speed of access.  But, if all I need to do is skip from one file\nto the next and only need relatively low bandwidth to stream the file\nfrom the tape, this sounds like a great way to archive video.\nDepending on the video compression, maybe I could fit a whole season\nor two of a show onto a single tape.</p>\n<p>Seems like a good idea, though pricey.  But maybe the price and cost\nof media would offset the pain in the ass of any other method.  I probably\nshould look more into the price and pain of a DVD burner, but the idea\nof more disc-like things laying around worries me.</p>\n<p>What do you think?</p>\n<!--more-->\n\n\n<p>shortname=video_on_tape</p>\n<div id=\"comments\" class=\"comments archived-comments\"><h3>Archived Comments</h3>\n<ul class=\"comments\">\n<li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085093\">\n<div class=\"meta\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n<a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"http://www.10500bc.org\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=6492f173a7059ece309f7d670ff44e95&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\" width=\"\" height=\"\"></a>\n<a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"http://www.10500bc.org\">nf0</a>\n</div>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#comment-221085093\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T11:40:11\">2003-07-30T11:40:11</time></a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n<div class=\"content\">I would like to see how this works out for you. I have several big hard drives full of vide. When I reach 99% I then burn to VCD or DVD. I have to have a whole self just for storage, and the drives re-fill. I'm a digital pack rat. I've been looking on ebay at tape drives in the 20/40 gig range. I think it is cheaper.</div>\n\n\n</li>\n<li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085096\">\n<div class=\"meta\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n<a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=a4a6b6311d0394d7694c3731c8f4f0f6&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\" width=\"\" height=\"\"></a>\n<a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\">mesh</a>\n</div>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#comment-221085096\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T13:10:56\">2003-07-30T13:10:56</time></a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n<div class=\"content\">I have concidered this many times.\nThe problem is simple: tapes are expensive, even when we forget the price of the tape drive for a moment.\nThe best value tape I could find in a large webshop was FUJIFILM Super DLTx1-160 GB at 163$.\nThe cheapest harddrive was Samsung 160GB SpinPoint V80, concidentally also at 163$.\nSo in my opinion you might as well buy harddrives.</div>\n\n\n</li>\n<li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085097\">\n<div class=\"meta\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n<a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"http://www.majid.info/\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c4f047528ef2dfcd3cdccb82cf2a04ac&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\" width=\"\" height=\"\"></a>\n<a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"http://www.majid.info/\">Fazal Majid</a>\n</div>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#comment-221085097\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T14:13:53\">2003-07-30T14:13:53</time></a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n<div class=\"content\">I agree with mesh - tape drives are simply too slow, finicky and prone to break down. I use a pair of external Firewire hard drives for my backups. Read this interesting interview of database pioneer Jim Gray:\nhttp://www.acmqueue.org/modules.php?name=Content&amp;pa=showpage&amp;pid=43</div>\n\n\n</li>\n<li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085098\">\n<div class=\"meta\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n<a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=e24c81efad4c66a32b3146800f7963c0&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\" width=\"\" height=\"\"></a>\n<a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\">grey</a>\n</div>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#comment-221085098\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T17:00:14\">2003-07-30T17:00:14</time></a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n<div class=\"content\">For the tape question... hdd's are cheaper and faster - long term they're not exactly known to be reliable yet, but people haven't really done long term tests on them that I can see.  A used DLT drive (even an autoloader) doesn't run for too much on Ebay, but the tapes are pricey, ~$30 even for refurbs and you'll be lucky to get 50GB's out of them with compression turned on even using DLT-IV (since this is mpeg1/vcd expect to be closer to the 40GB limit though).\nMeanwhile, even a non-techno savvy coworker was impressed that 120GB 7200rpm hdd's were about $80 a pop now.  Very very tempting.  Look around and you might find even better bang-per-buck\nAnother interesting development, that seems a lot more tempting than Firewire and USB enclosures is eSATA (external Serial ATA).  Such as can be found at http://highpoint-tech.com/\nIt's potentially a lot faster than USB &amp; Firewire (SATA is currently 133MB's threshold, which is basically the max of a standard 32bit 33Mhz PCI bus anyway - disks do not write anywhere near that quickly mind you), and potentially a bit cheaper too.  I haven't done the digging there, so SATA prices, a controller &amp; enclosures might actually rule that out, but it is worth looking into.  Regardless, of nitpicking prices though it will definitely be cheaper &amp; faster than used DLT crapola, plus in all likelihood you might need to buy a USB2 or firewire controller anyway, so getting a SATA controller instead isn't like to be much extra work, though it might be less standard (maybe buy a combo firewire &amp; USB2 enclosure in case you need to bring it to a friend as well).\nAs an aside, you might want to contemplate using something like MPEG4 or DivX instead of mpeg1/vcd - you get much higher quality than VCD's with about the same density of data.</div>\n\n\n</li>\n<li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085099\">\n<div class=\"meta\">\n<div class=\"author\">\n<a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=cb0bd3971c5ee6e566588273eb89cdc1&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\" width=\"\" height=\"\"></a>\n<a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"\">nicole</a>\n</div>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#comment-221085099\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2004-03-29T15:30:24\">2004-03-29T15:30:24</time></a></p>\n</div>\n\n\n<div class=\"content\">so yeah i sorta was doing a search on how to record stuff from my tv to my apple powerbook. i have a dvd burner in it and stuff i just wanna know if its possible. i know what cord to get to hook up my powerbook so i can watch dvds on my tv. is that the same cord that i would use to record tv onto my powerbook? what kind of software do i need... so yeah, can this actually be done? whether i burn it on a dvd or just a cd... help! please!!</div>\n\n\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n</div>\n\n\n",
  "body": "Oh and while I'm writing about watching video files on my TV, I've\r\nbeen thinking of getting myself a tape drive.  Sure, I'll use it to\r\nactually, finally, back up all the important things I have littered\r\naround my handful of machines.  Having established a backup routine\r\nat work, I've gotten to thinking.\r\n<br /><br />\r\nHow bad an idea would it be to use a tape drive to store TV shows?\r\nI've been capturing them with the VCD format, which gives me around\r\n600MB per hour of show.  This fills up my drive pretty quickly,\r\nobviously.  I know I really should take sometime to revisit things and\r\ntry another video codec, since originally I used VCD because I burned\r\neverything to CD for my DVD player, but now I'm streaming files to my\r\nPowerbook over the network which gives me a lot more flexibility in\r\nrecording options.\r\n<br /><br />\r\nHowever, not burning to CD leaves me with a hard drive full of video\r\nthat I'm hesitant to delete yet have no good reason to need laying around on a\r\nhigh speed hard drive.  But, burning all that to a spindle-worth\r\nof blank CDs without a Lego Mindstorms based CD-changer robot leaves\r\nme shuddering.  I recall reading about <a href=\"http://www.djzone.net/pg/0101/tf01001.shtml\" target=\"_top\">a DJ-bot</a>\r\nthat did this for playing music, and I notice <a href=\"http://ask.slashdot.org/articles/03/07/22/122253.shtml?tid=137&amp;tid=198\" target=\"_top\">via Slashdot</a> that someone with a\r\ndecent woodshop <a href=\"http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/changer.html\" target=\"_top\">has provided plans</a>\r\nfor such a beast for a CD writer.  But I can't afford the Legos at\r\nthe present moment, and I'll only end up hurting myself working with\r\npower tools.\r\n<br /><br />\r\nThen, I remember that high capacity tapes make backing up lots of data\r\neasy at work.  I know that the tape trade off is capacity and price\r\nfor speed of access.  But, if all I need to do is skip from one file\r\nto the next and only need relatively low bandwidth to stream the file\r\nfrom the tape, this sounds like a great way to archive video.\r\nDepending on the video compression, maybe I could fit a whole season\r\nor two of a show onto a single tape.\r\n<br /><br />\r\nSeems like a good idea, though pricey.  But maybe the price and cost\r\nof media would offset the pain in the ass of any other method.  I probably\r\nshould look more into the price and pain of a DVD burner, but the idea\r\nof more disc-like things laying around worries me.\r\n<br /><br />\r\nWhat do you think?\r\n<!--more-->\r\nshortname=video_on_tape\r\n\r\n<div id=\"comments\" class=\"comments archived-comments\">\r\n            <h3>Archived Comments</h3>\r\n            \r\n        <ul class=\"comments\">\r\n            \r\n        <li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085093\">\r\n            <div class=\"meta\">\r\n                <div class=\"author\">\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"http://www.10500bc.org\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=6492f173a7059ece309f7d670ff44e95&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\"/></a>\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"http://www.10500bc.org\">nf0</a>\r\n                </div>\r\n                <a href=\"#comment-221085093\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T11:40:11\">2003-07-30T11:40:11</time></a>\r\n            </div>\r\n            <div class=\"content\">I would like to see how this works out for you. I have several big hard drives full of vide. When I reach 99% I then burn to VCD or DVD. I have to have a whole self just for storage, and the drives re-fill. I'm a digital pack rat. I've been looking on ebay at tape drives in the 20/40 gig range. I think it is cheaper.</div>\r\n            \r\n        </li>\r\n    \r\n        <li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085096\">\r\n            <div class=\"meta\">\r\n                <div class=\"author\">\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=a4a6b6311d0394d7694c3731c8f4f0f6&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\"/></a>\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\">mesh</a>\r\n                </div>\r\n                <a href=\"#comment-221085096\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T13:10:56\">2003-07-30T13:10:56</time></a>\r\n            </div>\r\n            <div class=\"content\">I have concidered this many times.\r\nThe problem is simple: tapes are expensive, even when we forget the price of the tape drive for a moment.\r\n\r\nThe best value tape I could find in a large webshop was FUJIFILM Super DLTx1-160 GB at 163$.\r\nThe cheapest harddrive was Samsung 160GB SpinPoint V80, concidentally also at 163$.\r\nSo in my opinion you might as well buy harddrives.</div>\r\n            \r\n        </li>\r\n    \r\n        <li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085097\">\r\n            <div class=\"meta\">\r\n                <div class=\"author\">\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"http://www.majid.info/\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c4f047528ef2dfcd3cdccb82cf2a04ac&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\"/></a>\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"http://www.majid.info/\">Fazal Majid</a>\r\n                </div>\r\n                <a href=\"#comment-221085097\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T14:13:53\">2003-07-30T14:13:53</time></a>\r\n            </div>\r\n            <div class=\"content\">I agree with mesh - tape drives are simply too slow, finicky and prone to break down. I use a pair of external Firewire hard drives for my backups. Read this interesting interview of database pioneer Jim Gray:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.acmqueue.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=43</div>\r\n            \r\n        </li>\r\n    \r\n        <li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085098\">\r\n            <div class=\"meta\">\r\n                <div class=\"author\">\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=e24c81efad4c66a32b3146800f7963c0&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\"/></a>\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\">grey</a>\r\n                </div>\r\n                <a href=\"#comment-221085098\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2003-07-30T17:00:14\">2003-07-30T17:00:14</time></a>\r\n            </div>\r\n            <div class=\"content\">For the tape question... hdd's are cheaper and faster - long term they're not exactly known to be reliable yet, but people haven't really done long term tests on them that I can see.  A used DLT drive (even an autoloader) doesn't run for too much on Ebay, but the tapes are pricey, ~$30 even for refurbs and you'll be lucky to get 50GB's out of them with compression turned on even using DLT-IV (since this is mpeg1/vcd expect to be closer to the 40GB limit though).\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, even a non-techno savvy coworker was impressed that 120GB 7200rpm hdd's were about $80 a pop now.  Very very tempting.  Look around and you might find even better bang-per-buck\r\n\r\nAnother interesting development, that seems a lot more tempting than Firewire and USB enclosures is eSATA (external Serial ATA).  Such as can be found at http://highpoint-tech.com/\r\n\r\nIt's potentially a lot faster than USB & Firewire (SATA is currently 133MB's threshold, which is basically the max of a standard 32bit 33Mhz PCI bus anyway - disks do not write anywhere near that quickly mind you), and potentially a bit cheaper too.  I haven't done the digging there, so SATA prices, a controller & enclosures might actually rule that out, but it is worth looking into.  Regardless, of nitpicking prices though it will definitely be cheaper & faster than used DLT crapola, plus in all likelihood you might need to buy a USB2 or firewire controller anyway, so getting a SATA controller instead isn't like to be much extra work, though it might be less standard (maybe buy a combo firewire & USB2 enclosure in case you need to bring it to a friend as well).\r\n\r\nAs an aside, you might want to contemplate using something like MPEG4 or DivX instead of mpeg1/vcd - you get much higher quality than VCD's with about the same density of data.</div>\r\n            \r\n        </li>\r\n    \r\n        <li class=\"comment\" id=\"comment-221085099\">\r\n            <div class=\"meta\">\r\n                <div class=\"author\">\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar image\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\"><img src=\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=cb0bd3971c5ee6e566588273eb89cdc1&amp;size=32&amp;default=http://mediacdn.disqus.com/1320279820/images/noavatar32.png\"/></a>\r\n                    <a class=\"avatar name\" rel=\"nofollow\" \r\n                       href=\"\">nicole</a>\r\n                </div>\r\n                <a href=\"#comment-221085099\" class=\"permalink\"><time datetime=\"2004-03-29T15:30:24\">2004-03-29T15:30:24</time></a>\r\n            </div>\r\n            <div class=\"content\">so yeah i sorta was doing a search on how to record stuff from my tv to my apple powerbook. i have a dvd burner in it and stuff i just wanna know if its possible. i know what cord to get to hook up my powerbook so i can watch dvds on my tv. is that the same cord that i would use to record tv onto my powerbook? what kind of software do i need... so yeah, can this actually be done? whether i burn it on a dvd or just a cd... help! please!!</div>\r\n            \r\n        </li>\r\n    \r\n        </ul>\r\n    \r\n        </div>\r\n    ",
  "parentPath": "./content/posts/archives/2003",
  "path": "2003/07/30/video-on-tape",
  "summary": "Oh and while I'm writing about watching video files on my TV, I've\nbeen thinking of getting myself a tape drive.  Sure, I'll use it to\nactually, finally, back up all the important things I have littered\naround my handful of machines.  Having established a backup routine\nat work, I've gotten to thinking.\nHow bad an idea would it be to use a tape drive to store TV shows?\nI've been capturing them with the VCD format, which gives me around\n600MB per hour of show.  This fills up my drive pretty quickly,\nobviously.  I know I really should take sometime to revisit things and\ntry another video codec, since originally I used VCD because I burned\neverything to CD for my DVD player, but now I'm streaming files to my\nPowerbook over the network which gives me a lot more flexibility in\nrecording options.\nHowever, not burning to CD leaves me with a hard drive full of video\nthat I'm hesitant to delete yet have no good reason to need laying around on a\nhigh speed hard drive.  But, burning all that to a spindle-worth\nof blank CDs without a Lego Mindstorms based CD-changer robot leaves\nme shuddering.  I recall reading about a DJ-bot\nthat did this for playing music, and I notice via Slashdot that someone with a\ndecent woodshop has provided plans\nfor such a beast for a CD writer.  But I can't afford the Legos at\nthe present moment, and I'll only end up hurting myself working with\npower tools.\nThen, I remember that high capacity tapes make backing up lots of data\neasy at work.  I know that the tape trade off is capacity and price\nfor speed of access.  But, if all I need to do is skip from one file\nto the next and only need relatively low bandwidth to stream the file\nfrom the tape, this sounds like a great way to archive video.\nDepending on the video compression, maybe I could fit a whole season\nor two of a show onto a single tape.\nSeems like a good idea, though pricey.  But maybe the price and cost\nof media would offset the pain in the ass of any other method.  I probably\nshould look more into the price and pain of a DVD burner, but the idea\nof more disc-like things laying around worries me.\nWhat do you think?",
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  "prevPostPath": "2003/07/30/powerbook-on-tv",
  "prevPostTitle": "My Powerbook's on TV",
  "nextPostPath": "2003/07/30/ge-blog-of-day",
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