{ "attachments": [], "comments_archived": true, "date": "2002-04-15T18:54:03.000Z", "layout": "post", "title": "A personal server & Multi-threaded vs Async / Event-driven programming", "wordpress_id": 70, "wordpress_slug": "ooooio", "wordpress_url": "http://www.decafbad.com/blog/?p=70", "year": "2002", "month": "04", "day": "15", "isDir": false, "slug": "ooooio", "type": "entry", "postName": "2002-04-15-ooooio", "html": "

Okay after the vote of confidence from Sam Ruby about my thinking out loud about a \"404 correction\" proxy server, I've been thinking more about writing a Radio-like desktop app server. I want to do more than make a DesktopWebsite, though. I want to make a full-blown PersonalServer app, capable of hosting things like a PersonalMailServer and a slew of other little local web services & etc. I may end up giving up and working more within Radio, but as I noted before I have some issues with Radio's performance and stability, which though balanced by my appreciation of the elegance of the system, is being gradually outweighed by my fears of lock-in and pre-existing experience with other technologies.

\n

Then again, this thing probably won't replace RadioUserLand for me. I use it daily, I bought it, and it's not as exciting to reimplement what I already have. Unless it is exciting. Make any sense?

\n

So, speaking of technologies... which ones should I use to start working on a personal server? My main goals are mumbled over here.

\n

I've got a large amount of experience with Perl, and have written desktop apps with it for Mac OS X and Win32. I'm having more fun with Python, however, and though I haven't written the same apps I imagine that it's on par with Perl.

\n

The main thing I'm trying to decide right now is: multi-threaded vs async/event-driven.

\n

See, I need some sort of concurrency to handle multiple network server hits, multiple agents running, a scheduler, and whatever else wants to take up residence inside the PersonalServer. RadioUserLand, of course, has all of this.

\n

I've worked a lot with POE in Perl to make some event-driven multitasking apps, a few servers (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, etc) and a few things to replace a fleet of forked scripts. I've also started looking at Twisted in Python which I gather to be the analogous thing in their camp. Not the same, but they both are using the same basic idea of event-driven programs.

\n

The problem is that, to take code that you would have written for a forking or multi-threaded program, and make it play nice within the event-driven environment, there's a bit of re-think you need to do. Loops need to be broken up into procedures, turned into self-running events, etc.

\n

Hmm... trying to think of more re-think examples, but the main one I can think of is that long-running loops and processes need to be sliced and diced. I seem to remember more pain than that.

\n

Anyway, I'd rather use threads. In threads, there needs to be a bit of re-think too, in terms of protecting resources from concurrency, but at least the main logic of my code can remain straightforward. Perl doesn't have threads that I want to touch yet. Python has threads, but I'm not sure how kosher they are. Of course, there's always Java, but I want to avoid Java I think.

\n

Anyone tuned in out there with any thoughts? Mostly thinking out loud right now.

\n\n\n\n\n\n

shortname=ooooio

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Archived Comments

\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n", "body": "

Okay after the vote of confidence from Sam Ruby about my thinking out loud about a \"404 correction\" proxy server, I've been thinking more about writing a Radio-like desktop app server. I want to do more than make a DesktopWebsite, though. I want to make a full-blown PersonalServer app, capable of hosting things like a PersonalMailServer and a slew of other little local web services & etc. I may end up giving up and working more within Radio, but as I noted before I have some issues with Radio's performance and stability, which though balanced by my appreciation of the elegance of the system, is being gradually outweighed by my fears of lock-in and pre-existing experience with other technologies.

\r\n

Then again, this thing probably won't replace RadioUserLand for me. I use it daily, I bought it, and it's not as exciting to reimplement what I already have. Unless it is exciting. Make any sense?

\r\n

So, speaking of technologies... which ones should I use to start working on a personal server? My main goals are mumbled over here.

\r\n

I've got a large amount of experience with Perl, and have written desktop apps with it for Mac OS X and Win32. I'm having more fun with Python, however, and though I haven't written the same apps I imagine that it's on par with Perl.

\r\n

The main thing I'm trying to decide right now is: multi-threaded vs async/event-driven.

\r\n

See, I need some sort of concurrency to handle multiple network server hits, multiple agents running, a scheduler, and whatever else wants to take up residence inside the PersonalServer. RadioUserLand, of course, has all of this.

\r\n

I've worked a lot with POE in Perl to make some event-driven multitasking apps, a few servers (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, etc) and a few things to replace a fleet of forked scripts. I've also started looking at Twisted in Python which I gather to be the analogous thing in their camp. Not the same, but they both are using the same basic idea of event-driven programs.

\r\n

The problem is that, to take code that you would have written for a forking or multi-threaded program, and make it play nice within the event-driven environment, there's a bit of re-think you need to do. Loops need to be broken up into procedures, turned into self-running events, etc.

\r\n

Hmm... trying to think of more re-think examples, but the main one I can think of is that long-running loops and processes need to be sliced and diced. I seem to remember more pain than that.

\r\n

Anyway, I'd rather use threads. In threads, there needs to be a bit of re-think too, in terms of protecting resources from concurrency, but at least the main logic of my code can remain straightforward. Perl doesn't have threads that I want to touch yet. Python has threads, but I'm not sure how kosher they are. Of course, there's always Java, but I want to avoid Java I think.

\r\n

Anyone tuned in out there with any thoughts? Mostly thinking out loud right now.

\r\n\r\nshortname=ooooio\r\n\r\n
\r\n

Archived Comments

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n ", "parentPath": "./content/posts/archives/2002", "path": "2002/04/15/ooooio", "summary": "Okay after the vote of confidence from Sam Ruby about my thinking out loud about a \"404 correction\" proxy server, I've been thinking more about writing a Radio-like desktop app server. I want to do more than make a DesktopWebsite, though. I want to make a full-blown PersonalServer app, capable of hosting things like a PersonalMailServer and a slew of other little local web services & etc. I may end up giving up and working more within Radio, but as I noted before I have some issues with Radio's performance and stability, which though balanced by my appreciation of the elegance of the system, is being gradually outweighed by my fears of lock-in and pre-existing experience with other technologies. \nThen again, this thing probably won't replace RadioUserLand for me. I use it daily, I bought it, and it's not as exciting to reimplement what I already have. Unless it is exciting. Make any sense?\nSo, speaking of technologies... which ones should I use to start working on a personal server? My main goals are mumbled over here.\nI've got a large amount of experience with Perl, and have written desktop apps with it for Mac OS X and Win32. I'm having more fun with Python, however, and though I haven't written the same apps I imagine that it's on par with Perl.\nThe main thing I'm trying to decide right now is: multi-threaded vs async/event-driven.\nSee, I need some sort of concurrency to handle multiple network server hits, multiple agents running, a scheduler, and whatever else wants to take up residence inside the PersonalServer. RadioUserLand, of course, has all of this.\nI've worked a lot with POE in Perl to make some event-driven multitasking apps, a few servers (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, etc) and a few things to replace a fleet of forked scripts. I've also started looking at Twisted in Python which I gather to be the analogous thing in their camp. Not the same, but they both are using the same basic idea of event-driven programs.\nThe problem is that, to take code that you would have written for a forking or multi-threaded program, and make it play nice within the event-driven environment, there's a bit of re-think you need to do. Loops need to be broken up into procedures, turned into self-running events, etc.\nHmm... trying to think of more re-think examples, but the main one I can think of is that long-running loops and processes need to be sliced and diced. I seem to remember more pain than that.\nAnyway, I'd rather use threads. In threads, there needs to be a bit of re-think too, in terms of protecting resources from concurrency, but at least the main logic of my code can remain straightforward. Perl doesn't have threads that I want to touch yet. Python has threads, but I'm not sure how kosher they are. Of course, there's always Java, but I want to avoid Java I think.\nAnyone tuned in out there with any thoughts? Mostly thinking out loud right now.", "needsBuild": true, "prevPostPath": "2002/04/15/oooohi", "prevPostTitle": "web bug / cgi-based access_log emulator?", "nextPostPath": "2002/04/15/ooooia", "nextPostTitle": "LiveJournal XML-RPC + metaWeblog API" }